UND logo and nickname
There has been a bunch of stuff going on in the last week concerning the University of North Dakota and their logo/nickname situation, what with the deadline imposed by the ND Board of Education approaching. Goon's World of course has the coverage:
There has been plenty of protesting going on (link 1)
The ND BOE has extended the deadline at least 30 days (link 2)
Ron Thunderhorse has been replaced on the Standing Rock Tribal leadership (link 3)
I haven't talked about my positions on this in quite a while and my positions have changed slightly. There's my political positions and my personal feelings.
Politically I have nothing against anything that has happened so far. In every case, everything that has happened (as far as I can tell) has been people (the protesters) or organizations (NCAA, ND Board of Education, Univ of North Dakota) using their freedoms. All the affiliations are voluntary ones.
I think what I said before is that I'm okay with UND giving up the Fighting Sioux name if they can't get tribal approval. If that's the case I should revise; I'm okay with UND giving up the Fighting Sioux name or keeping the Fighting Sioux name, if all parties are not forced. Short of any one of the parties holding a gun to someone else's head (or similarly, getting the government involved and the government holding a gun to any of the parties heads) or something similar to that, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. They can choose to do whatever they want and face the consequences of their decision. The consequences could be major depending on the decision, like if UND stands their ground they may have to give up being a state funded school and/or have to leave the NCAA.
Now personally, I have no problem with UND being the Fighting Sioux. I have no problem with the use of the term Fighting Sioux, because neither "Fighting" nor "Sioux" are offensive terms (unlike "redskin" which is offensive) by themselves and them together isn't offensive. I have no problem with the Fighting Sioux logo, because it was designed by a Native American artist, who allowed the school to use the logo.
The Fighting Sioux has always seemed to me to be done respectfully. The nickname Fighting Sioux, the logos, the jerseys, and other things have always to me been one of the most well done and greatest in the country.
If a school was to become the "Fighting Caucasians", "Fighting Whites", "Fighting Honkies", or something similar and do it similar to the way UND has done I would have no problems with it. It's all about context, which is why I disagree with the NCAA's original "all Native American" nicknames are offensive" policy.
I've never seen fans, students, players, or coaches being racist. Then again, if there were a couple of racists in the Fighting Sioux fans I would not say the school should stop being the Fighting Sioux. If the school was using a nickname or logo that I consider to be racist, such as the Cleveland Indian's Chief Wahoo, I'd be against them using it. Depending on circumstances and such I'd even consider protesting against them.
Am I excited that the Standing Rock Tribe voted in a new leader who is apparently pro UND being the Fighting Sioux? You bet I am. Do I think that the protesters should stop? Certainly not. They have the right to feel UND using the Sioux name is racist and have the right to protest against UND. Do I think I could be wrong and the school actually is using the nickname and logo in a racist way? Certainly, there might be other things about the University of North Dakota that I don't know about.
So, in summary, at this time I can not disagree with the University of North Dakota being the Fighting Sioux. I can't disagree with them personally or politically.
Link 1: http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/2009/09/indian-activists-protest-sioux-logo.html
Link 2: http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/2009/10/state-board-of-higher-education-has.html
Link 3: http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/2009/10/new-standing-rock-tribal-chairman.html
posted by USAFA Bulldog at
10/02/2009 12:24:00 PM
4 Comments:
What about a 8x8 foot sign hung up during a championship game that said
SCALP THE SQUAWS
No problem with that? Such a thing did happen in the past. I've seen the pictures.
The point that so many people don't consider with these "Fighting Whities" arguments (which most often include Notre Dame) is that the Lakota people were brutally mistreated because of the white man's Manifest Destiny policy during the 18th and 19th century.
To then turn around and use the decapitated head of the conquered indigenous foes is akin to the sort of barbarism that conquerers throughout history used. Ever see any historical based movies where there was a decapitated foe's head on a pike? That was common practice for European whites to do to all vanquished peoples.
It is nothing less than a continuation of that brutality to foist this symbol on a group of people that to this day struggle to overcome the multitude of wrongs done to them.
By
Donald Dunlop, at 1:17 PM
I did not know of that sign. I do agree that it's racist. How was it used? Who created it? When was it used? I need more information whether I'd be against it personally.
There's no contention that they were treated bad in the past. However, just because they were treated bad in the past means nothing to this argument. The only way you can include this in the argument is if you can show UND as a school policy is pro scalping of Indians.
By
USAFA Bulldog, at 1:40 PM
Better wording on my part:
"I need more information whether I'd be against The University of North Dakota being the Fighting Sioux personally."
By
USAFA Bulldog, at 1:42 PM
Just for the record that Spirit Lake Tribe voted 67% in favor of UND using the Fighting Sioux name. If Standing Rock is allowed to vote you will probably see the same result.
By
Goon, at 2:36 PM
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